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	<title>Comments on: why the digital divide is a library issue</title>
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	<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/</link>
	<description>putting the rarin back in librarian since 1999</description>
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		<title>By: Uncontrolled Vocabulary #7 - There is always a take-home lesson. &#124; Uncontrolled Vocabulary</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-114931</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncontrolled Vocabulary #7 - There is always a take-home lesson. &#124; Uncontrolled Vocabulary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 04:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-114931</guid>
		<description>[...] Discussion of August 3 comments on &#8220;why the digital divide is a library issue&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Discussion of August 3 comments on &#8220;why the digital divide is a library issue&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-114917</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 18:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The present comment is being posted from a public library.  As I write it (March 1, 2008), the most recent post is dated December 12, 2007.  Looks like another 3 weeks and comments would have been closed... One disadvantage to being on the far side of the digital divide is that participation in online discussions is anything but timely.

LibraryLady:  Broadband may be a luxury, but SUV&#039;s are an extreme extravagance by comparison.  Too many things have been re-clssified as necessities, from indoor plumbing to refrigerators to (obscenely, thanks to lack of mass transit) cars.

Mark:  Thankx for pointing out the effect of value subtraction by signal-to-noise ratio dilution.  I got more -done- in 1991 at 2400 bps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The present comment is being posted from a public library.  As I write it (March 1, 2008), the most recent post is dated December 12, 2007.  Looks like another 3 weeks and comments would have been closed&#8230; One disadvantage to being on the far side of the digital divide is that participation in online discussions is anything but timely.</p>
<p>LibraryLady:  Broadband may be a luxury, but SUV&#8217;s are an extreme extravagance by comparison.  Too many things have been re-clssified as necessities, from indoor plumbing to refrigerators to (obscenely, thanks to lack of mass transit) cars.</p>
<p>Mark:  Thankx for pointing out the effect of value subtraction by signal-to-noise ratio dilution.  I got more -done- in 1991 at 2400 bps.</p>
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		<title>By: The OPLIN 4cast &#187; Blog Archive &#187; OPLIN 4cast #67</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-111803</link>
		<dc:creator>The OPLIN 4cast &#187; Blog Archive &#187; OPLIN 4cast #67</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-111803</guid>
		<description>[...] why the digital divide is a library issue (librarian.net) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] why the digital divide is a library issue (librarian.net) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pointing to a point that points : Manage This!</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-107230</link>
		<dc:creator>Pointing to a point that points : Manage This!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-107230</guid>
		<description>[...] Enough to say the first point is from Steven M. Cohen at About LibraryStuff.net in the post Help Others Better Their Lives. That post takes us to Second Life Hype vs. Human Needs by John Gehner the Coordinator of the Hunger, Homelessness &amp; Poverty Task Force – SRRT/ALA. Which in turn points us to Annette DeFaveri and the Working Together Project (about libraries and social inclusion/exclusion) and Jessamyn West for her work on the digital divide. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Enough to say the first point is from Steven M. Cohen at About LibraryStuff.net in the post Help Others Better Their Lives. That post takes us to Second Life Hype vs. Human Needs by John Gehner the Coordinator of the Hunger, Homelessness &#38; Poverty Task Force – SRRT/ALA. Which in turn points us to Annette DeFaveri and the Working Together Project (about libraries and social inclusion/exclusion) and Jessamyn West for her work on the digital divide. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Starner</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-106039</link>
		<dc:creator>David Starner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-106039</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had library filters that simply display a 404 instead of telling you that you&#039;ve been filtered. (I know, because I can see the first half of the text file load up, and then it blinks to a 404, which is impossible.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had library filters that simply display a 404 instead of telling you that you&#8217;ve been filtered. (I know, because I can see the first half of the text file load up, and then it blinks to a 404, which is impossible.)</p>
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		<title>By: Comment on why the digital divide is a library issue by sikri</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-104958</link>
		<dc:creator>Comment on why the digital divide is a library issue by sikri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-104958</guid>
		<description>[...] Visit Original Author&#8217;s Page       No Comments, Comment or Ping [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Visit Original Author&#8217;s Page       No Comments, Comment or Ping [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sikri</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-104875</link>
		<dc:creator>sikri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 04:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-104875</guid>
		<description>Nathangphd is a wonderful person.  Until you have walked a mile in his shoes, you really shouldn&#039;t judge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathangphd is a wonderful person.  Until you have walked a mile in his shoes, you really shouldn&#8217;t judge.</p>
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		<title>By: Comment on why the digital divide is a library issue by looking deeper</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-103826</link>
		<dc:creator>Comment on why the digital divide is a library issue by looking deeper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-103826</guid>
		<description>[...] Visit Original Author&#8217;s Page       No Comments, Comment or Ping [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Visit Original Author&#8217;s Page       No Comments, Comment or Ping [...]</p>
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		<title>By: looking deeper</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-103730</link>
		<dc:creator>looking deeper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-103730</guid>
		<description>When you hear account like this, it does cause concern.  So, I thought it might be interesting to look at other posts the guy made, knowing that there is always more to the story.  I browsed the library mofo archives to see what he wrote.  Upon reading through a ton of posts, it is clear the guy hated everyone!  Glad I don&#039;t have to work with him.  

I mean, we all have bad days, encounter difficult interactions with people (customers and coworkers, alike.) We are all entitled to complain.  But, when the rants are personal attacks on people based on their weight, how they look or sound, etc., it is not defensible.  He slams administrators, coworkers, volunteers, his city, and customers equally.  In a few posts, he even goes to the extent of threatening physical violence (kicking people and running others over with his car.) Sounds like he is in dire need of some counseling.

And, shame on him, he did nothing to make his posts private!  He used his name, mentioned his city, and basically names people he is slamming.  He didn&#039;t lock the posts or make them friends only.  Once you make it known to your employer and coworkers how much you hate them, it is time to go.  Why would any organization want him around knowing that he hates what he does, who he serves, and the people he works with.

This is definitely a cautionary tale.  Be careful about what you do on the internet.  It is public.  Be mature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you hear account like this, it does cause concern.  So, I thought it might be interesting to look at other posts the guy made, knowing that there is always more to the story.  I browsed the library mofo archives to see what he wrote.  Upon reading through a ton of posts, it is clear the guy hated everyone!  Glad I don&#8217;t have to work with him.  </p>
<p>I mean, we all have bad days, encounter difficult interactions with people (customers and coworkers, alike.) We are all entitled to complain.  But, when the rants are personal attacks on people based on their weight, how they look or sound, etc., it is not defensible.  He slams administrators, coworkers, volunteers, his city, and customers equally.  In a few posts, he even goes to the extent of threatening physical violence (kicking people and running others over with his car.) Sounds like he is in dire need of some counseling.</p>
<p>And, shame on him, he did nothing to make his posts private!  He used his name, mentioned his city, and basically names people he is slamming.  He didn&#8217;t lock the posts or make them friends only.  Once you make it known to your employer and coworkers how much you hate them, it is time to go.  Why would any organization want him around knowing that he hates what he does, who he serves, and the people he works with.</p>
<p>This is definitely a cautionary tale.  Be careful about what you do on the internet.  It is public.  Be mature.</p>
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		<title>By: Comment on why the digital divide is a library issue by concerned &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-103497</link>
		<dc:creator>Comment on why the digital divide is a library issue by concerned &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 07:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-103497</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
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		<title>By: jessamyn</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-103465</link>
		<dc:creator>jessamyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 04:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-103465</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I think a constructive exploration of ways for librarians and administrations to combat this problem has been needed for quite some time. I’d write it, but I’m honestly as baffled as everyone else.&lt;/em&gt;

I think that&#039;s a really good point. 

A lot of what we call technostress, I think of as really a management problem where people&#039;s expctations of what can be done with technology from a management perspective and what can actually be done with technology realistically by staff are two very different things. When I worked in public libraries I was always beign told to do things with the public computers and the patrons that were totally unrealistic, both in their ideas of how patrons would respond and their ideas of how the technology even worked. When you try to explain that their ideas are unrealistic, you&#039;re branded as &quot;not a team player&quot; which is horrible to hear for someone who works really hard, all the time, with very very imperfect systems. 

Every time I see a TV commercial for some new technological marvel, whether it&#039;s a cell phone or an operating system or some feature of something we already have, I sort of wince knowing that there&#039;s a huge gap between the idealized version of the technology presented and how it&#039;s going to work in real life. Just the difference between how our library PCs work and how a patron&#039;s PC works at home is enough to point that out. Every difference needs to be explained to savvy users and is taught to novice users as &quot;this is how a computer works&quot; 

It&#039;s terrible and there is no understanding that this is the bulk of what a lot of librarians do with very little training or guidance and even less empathy to how difficult that job is. I made a decision at my job that I would not get yelled at  for my job and when someone started yelling, I made them talk to my boss. Not a team player, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I think a constructive exploration of ways for librarians and administrations to combat this problem has been needed for quite some time. I’d write it, but I’m honestly as baffled as everyone else.</em></p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s a really good point. </p>
<p>A lot of what we call technostress, I think of as really a management problem where people&#8217;s expctations of what can be done with technology from a management perspective and what can actually be done with technology realistically by staff are two very different things. When I worked in public libraries I was always beign told to do things with the public computers and the patrons that were totally unrealistic, both in their ideas of how patrons would respond and their ideas of how the technology even worked. When you try to explain that their ideas are unrealistic, you&#8217;re branded as &#8220;not a team player&#8221; which is horrible to hear for someone who works really hard, all the time, with very very imperfect systems. </p>
<p>Every time I see a TV commercial for some new technological marvel, whether it&#8217;s a cell phone or an operating system or some feature of something we already have, I sort of wince knowing that there&#8217;s a huge gap between the idealized version of the technology presented and how it&#8217;s going to work in real life. Just the difference between how our library PCs work and how a patron&#8217;s PC works at home is enough to point that out. Every difference needs to be explained to savvy users and is taught to novice users as &#8220;this is how a computer works&#8221; </p>
<p>It&#8217;s terrible and there is no understanding that this is the bulk of what a lot of librarians do with very little training or guidance and even less empathy to how difficult that job is. I made a decision at my job that I would not get yelled at  for my job and when someone started yelling, I made them talk to my boss. Not a team player, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: constructive librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-103413</link>
		<dc:creator>constructive librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-103413</guid>
		<description>I think maybe one of the things that comes out of the whole nathangphd situation is that burnout and stress among librarians is an overlooked problem.  That much of the public doesn&#039;t understand what we do is annoying and somewhat problematic, but that very few administrations or HR departments seem to understand how stressful our jobs can be and what that stress does to us, is a different and more pressing problem.  

When all librarians hear from administration is &quot;remember customer service&quot; and &quot;the customer is always right&quot;, it makes us feel like bad librarians (or bad people) when we have a frustrating day, or when the cumulative effects of frustration begin to burn us out.  I know that (in a past job), displaying any attitude that was not relentlessly cheery and upbeat about all patrons, no matter what the situation (up to and including assault) was construed as &quot;having a bad attitude&quot;.  Even asking about how to cope with stress was seen as &quot;not being a team player&quot;, and met with reprisals.  The sad fact is that some librarians have few other outlets than the library_mofo community on Livejournal (and other, similar entities).  No wonder nathangphd sounded angry and frustrated in his post! (though I&#039;ll bet  -- without knowing him -- that his public presentation took a different tone than did his post)

When you think about it, librarians get little recognition from the public as being professionals, often deal with continually slashed budgets, are vastly underpaid for the amount of education (and student loan debt) that we have, and work in a service profession with plenty of public contact -- it is no surprise that we get stressed and burnt out at our jobs.  Even the best of library administrations generally offer little in the way of support, and the worst often compound the problem.  I think a constructive exploration of ways for librarians and administrations to combat this problem has been needed for quite some time.  I&#039;d write it, but I&#039;m honestly as baffled as everyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think maybe one of the things that comes out of the whole nathangphd situation is that burnout and stress among librarians is an overlooked problem.  That much of the public doesn&#8217;t understand what we do is annoying and somewhat problematic, but that very few administrations or HR departments seem to understand how stressful our jobs can be and what that stress does to us, is a different and more pressing problem.  </p>
<p>When all librarians hear from administration is &#8220;remember customer service&#8221; and &#8220;the customer is always right&#8221;, it makes us feel like bad librarians (or bad people) when we have a frustrating day, or when the cumulative effects of frustration begin to burn us out.  I know that (in a past job), displaying any attitude that was not relentlessly cheery and upbeat about all patrons, no matter what the situation (up to and including assault) was construed as &#8220;having a bad attitude&#8221;.  Even asking about how to cope with stress was seen as &#8220;not being a team player&#8221;, and met with reprisals.  The sad fact is that some librarians have few other outlets than the library_mofo community on Livejournal (and other, similar entities).  No wonder nathangphd sounded angry and frustrated in his post! (though I&#8217;ll bet  &#8212; without knowing him &#8212; that his public presentation took a different tone than did his post)</p>
<p>When you think about it, librarians get little recognition from the public as being professionals, often deal with continually slashed budgets, are vastly underpaid for the amount of education (and student loan debt) that we have, and work in a service profession with plenty of public contact &#8212; it is no surprise that we get stressed and burnt out at our jobs.  Even the best of library administrations generally offer little in the way of support, and the worst often compound the problem.  I think a constructive exploration of ways for librarians and administrations to combat this problem has been needed for quite some time.  I&#8217;d write it, but I&#8217;m honestly as baffled as everyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: jessamyn</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-103330</link>
		<dc:creator>jessamyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-103330</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t aware of that. His post was on a public website, visible to anyone. While I&#039;m truly sorry if he lost his job, I&#039;d have to say if he lost it it&#039;s because he made that post in the first place on a public website. Anyone could have linked to it, I&#039;m just someone who happened to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t aware of that. His post was on a public website, visible to anyone. While I&#8217;m truly sorry if he lost his job, I&#8217;d have to say if he lost it it&#8217;s because he made that post in the first place on a public website. Anyone could have linked to it, I&#8217;m just someone who happened to.</p>
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		<title>By: concerned reader</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-103329</link>
		<dc:creator>concerned reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-103329</guid>
		<description>Are you aware that nathangphd lost his job because you linked to his post? Way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you aware that nathangphd lost his job because you linked to his post? Way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: jessamyn</title>
		<link>http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-102670</link>
		<dc:creator>jessamyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarian.net/stax/2099/why-the-digital-divide-is-a-library-issue/#comment-102670</guid>
		<description>SafeLibraries, we&#039;ve discussed this at length on the wikipedia site and I do not want to discuss it at length here. The Supreme Court making a decision about funding conditions for libaries is not at all the same as mandating filtering in public libraries. Saying something in &quot;constitutionally approved&quot; is very different from saying that it&#039;s mandated and itself is not an accurate way of describing the results of CIPA. There is NO LAW that mandates filtering, there is only a Supreme Court decision that if the government that wants to tie funding to filtering, it&#039;s not breaking the law. It&#039;s a huge difference.

The point I was making is that richer libraries can afford -- if they disagree with the stipulation that they must filter -- to forego funding. Poorer libraries can&#039;t, and have to put up with bad filtering, often poorly implemented as Meg mentions above. Most libraries that I have been in that filter have no visible notification that adults can have the filters disabled. Many libraries don&#039;t even have the power to disable the filters at the time a rquest is made.

The Supreme Court case was decided prima facia, basically saying that as the law was written, it&#039;s not unconstitutional. There is still room, according to (I think) Justice Stevens for an &quot;as applied&quot; challenge -- meaning that the law as applied restricts constitutionally protected speech. No one has seen fit to challenge the law yet, but data gathered by the ACLU and others seems to point towards the law being applied in ways that violate people&#039;s free speech rights. It&#039;s for a court of law to determine, all I can do is point to what the courts have already said and how that affects poor people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SafeLibraries, we&#8217;ve discussed this at length on the wikipedia site and I do not want to discuss it at length here. The Supreme Court making a decision about funding conditions for libaries is not at all the same as mandating filtering in public libraries. Saying something in &#8220;constitutionally approved&#8221; is very different from saying that it&#8217;s mandated and itself is not an accurate way of describing the results of CIPA. There is NO LAW that mandates filtering, there is only a Supreme Court decision that if the government that wants to tie funding to filtering, it&#8217;s not breaking the law. It&#8217;s a huge difference.</p>
<p>The point I was making is that richer libraries can afford &#8212; if they disagree with the stipulation that they must filter &#8212; to forego funding. Poorer libraries can&#8217;t, and have to put up with bad filtering, often poorly implemented as Meg mentions above. Most libraries that I have been in that filter have no visible notification that adults can have the filters disabled. Many libraries don&#8217;t even have the power to disable the filters at the time a rquest is made.</p>
<p>The Supreme Court case was decided prima facia, basically saying that as the law was written, it&#8217;s not unconstitutional. There is still room, according to (I think) Justice Stevens for an &#8220;as applied&#8221; challenge &#8212; meaning that the law as applied restricts constitutionally protected speech. No one has seen fit to challenge the law yet, but data gathered by the ACLU and others seems to point towards the law being applied in ways that violate people&#8217;s free speech rights. It&#8217;s for a court of law to determine, all I can do is point to what the courts have already said and how that affects poor people.</p>
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